Episode 69: I'm Gonna Need a 2nd Form of Identity... Politics
Full show notes at https://hoosleft.us/
https://www.instonewall.com/team
Welcome to the HoosLeft Podcast, a show about Indiana politics, history, and culture from the unapologetic perspective of the social democratic left. My name is Scott Aaron Rogers, and I’m recording from Bloomington.
We’re only two weeks into a second Trump administration, and it appears all of our worst fears are coming to pass. Sworn into office surrounded by the oligarchs who own our major means of communication, the insurrection-fomenting felon has issued executive orders at a furious rate - pardoning the seditious goons who attacked the US Capitol on his behalf, attempting to revoke Constitutionally-enshrined birthright citizenship, shredding decades-old federal anti-discrimination policy, redefining sex and gender along religious fundamentalist lines, and starting a trade war with our closest neighbors and allies.
Meanwhile, Trump’s Gestapo chief - Tom Homan - raids vulnerable immigrant communities and the richest man in the world - apartheid South African illegal alien Elon Musk, the diseased brain and bloated wallet behind the whole operation - employs a vanguard of incel flunkies to dismantle the federal government, and the progress of the last century. National Democrats have been flat-footed and inept at best, complicit at worst.
Though they apparently don’t know how to use it, at least federally-elected Democrats still have a fair amount of institutional power they can exercise. Here in Indiana, Republican supermajorities in both houses of the General Assembly leave Hoosier Democrats few levers to pull as the GOP extremists look to gut public education, further erode voting rights, and demonize our LGBTQ friends and neighbors - just a fraction of the fuckery oozing from under the Statehouse dome.
Defeated and demoralized, Democrats seem lost. They… we, do not seem to know who we are or what we stand for. I’ve talked about this before here in this space, and it comes up repeatedly as I speak with other activists and organizers. Lots of people on the populist left, the Bernie Sanders/AOC wing of the party, argue that Democrats need to center a working-class economic message. Some centrist, corporate Dems blame the party for going too “woke,” especially in supporting transgender rights. In both cases, “identity politics” takes the brunt of the criticism.
And listen, I largely agree that the Democratic Party has centered identitarian - rather than economic - concerns for many years now, to their detriment. But, there are different paths available to rectify this situation. Some would abandon support for marginalized groups entirely to focus on kitchen table issues. Others would suggest populist economics be placed at the center of said table with a side of identity politics. Others still might say the economy is just fine, thank you very much, and double down on the politics of race, sex, and gender.
As I’ve listened to, and participated in, these debates - sometimes in rooms full of nothing but cisgender white people - I can’t help but wonder how folks in some of these marginalized groups feel about their very existence being tossed around like a political football. My guest today is return visitor to HoosLeft. Veronica Pejril is a music professor at DePauw University in Greencastle. She served on that city’s council from 2020-2024, making her the first openly transgender elected official in Indiana. Last year, she ran for State Senate in District 24, losing to former Hendricks County Sheriff Brett Clark. This January, she was chosen as president of the Indiana Stonewall Democrats - the official LGBTQ constituency caucus in the party, with a seat on the State Central Committee.
In this conversation, which we recorded on January 23, we talk about maintaining one’s sanity amidst the onslaught, keeping a focus on state and local politics, and spotlighting things that might otherwise go unnoticed. We’ll do our own little autopsy of November’s loss before getting into identity politics, what that means to her, and the identities that really matter.
Now, before we turn to the interview, I want to thank all of you for your support for this project, especially those who have made the leap with a paid subscription. Your contributions have helped me make meaningful connections with fascinating people from across Indiana, and beyond. We are building a network of Hoosiers dedicated to making this state, and its government, work for all of us, not just the wealthy and connected few. I have so much more to give you, this community, and Indiana’s future, but the reality is I need financial support to do this work. All I’m asking is $5 a month, or $50 a year, to help me write more, research more, organize more, and keep improving HoosLeft.
Improvements like our own domain, where it’s now much easier to find us. Visit HoosLeft.US for all of our articles, episodes, archives, and please consider a paid subscription while you’re there. We’re also on Facebook, Bluesky, YouTube, and TikTok at HoosLeft, and I’m still on Instagram, Threads, and Twitter at scottrog78 and scottrog78@hoosier.social on Mastodon. Share on whatever social media platforms you use. Invite others. Leave reviews and feedback. Let’s build a radically-democratic Indiana together. Thanks again.
Now, here is my interview with Veronica Pejril.
Cited in the Interview
What Trump’s Executive Orders Mean to Refugees, Immigrants: https://www.globalrefuge.org/news/immigration-executive-orders-refugees-and-immigrants/
Implications of Trump’s Executive Orders on Trans Rights: https://time.com/7210389/donald-trump-executive-order-sex-gender-id/
Coping Strategies for Trump 2.0: https://www.vox.com/even-better/383873/coping-strategies-trump-presidency-processing
Resources for Trans People Dealing with Trump Grief: https://translifeline.org/post-election-grief/
Veronica Pejril at DePauw: https://www.depauw.edu/academics/music/faculty-staff/veronica-pejril/
Veronica Pejril at Princeton LGBTQ Alumni Association: https://everyvoice.princeton.edu/speaker/veronica-pejril-88/
Universities Give Special Instructions for International Students: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/colleges-advise-some-international-students-to-return-to-u-s-before-trump-takes-office
Passports with ‘X’ Gender Marker in Jeopardy: https://www.npr.org/2025/01/29/nx-s1-5276261/the-future-of-passports-with-the-x-gender-marker
Economic Isolation is Bad, Actually: https://thehill.com/opinion/4477848-matthews-isolationism-isnt-a-us-option/
Egg Prices Soaring Amid Bird Flu: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/why-a-deadly-strain-of-bird-flu-is-making-egg-prices-soar-nationwide
RFK Jr Could Effect Pandemic Preparedness: https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/01/28/nx-s1-5276171/rfk-jr-hearings-hhs-health-human-services-secretary
Indiana Bills Threaten Free Speech on Campus: https://pen.org/press-release/indiana-bills-would-enact-extreme-restrictions-on-campus-speech-and-ideas/
Michelle Davis Anti-Trans Bill: https://katv.com/news/nation-world/indiana-state-lawmaker-proposes-banning-transgender-girls-from-womens-college-sports-state-rep-michelle-davis-hoostier-state-lgbt-gender-identity
Indiana Bill Would Require State Departments to Retroactively Cancel Gender-Affirming Documents: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2025/bills/senate/441/details
Trump distracts from Project 2025’s Implementation at State Level: https://democracyforward.org/the-peoples-guide-to-project-2025/underway-in-the-states/
Americans Increasingly Get Local News in Facebook Groups: https://www.pewresearch.org/journalism/2024/05/07/sources-of-local-news/
Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde Calls Out Trump’s Hatred: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/24/bishop-mariann-edgar-budde-sermon-that-enraged-donald-trump
Some Democrats Blame Loss on Support for Trans Rights: https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-politics-and-policy/democrats-blame-partys-position-transgender-rights-part-harris-loss-rcna179370
Americans Question Whether Democracy Works: https://news.gallup.com/poll/548120/record-low-satisfied-democracy-working.aspx
Representation Matters: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/psychology-the-people/202112/why-representation-matters-and-why-it-s-still-not-enough
Some Argue ‘Identity Politics’ at Fault for Dems’ Loss: https://www.npr.org/2024/11/20/nx-s1-5188372/identity-politics-lie-at-the-heart-of-harris-loss-academic-eddie-glaude-jr-argues
Indiana ‘Pink’ Tax: https://www.aclu-in.org/en/news/indianas-elimination-period-product-tax-overdue
Yoder’s Bill to Exempt Period Products from Tax: https://iga.in.gov/legislative/2025/bills/senate/173/details
Indiana Doesn’t Tax Groceries. Some States Do: https://taxhero.net/blog/sales-tax-on-food/
States with Flat vs. Graduated Income Tax: https://smartasset.com/taxes/states-with-flat-income-tax
Taxes on the Rich Were High When America Was ‘Great’: https://inequality.org/article/tax-the-rich-we-did-that-once/
Trump Surrounded by Oligarchs at Inauguration: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2025/1/21/trump-critics-say-inauguration-optics-show-oligarchy-in-action
Trump’s False Populism: https://thetricontinental.org/the-false-concept-of-populism-and-the-challenges-facing-the-left-north-atlantic/
Once again, that was Veronica Pejril, the first openly-transgender elected official in the Hoosier State, former Greencastle city councilperson and candidate for State Senate, and recently-elected President of Indiana Stonewall Democrats.
As Veronica noted, the concept of “identity politics” in not a new phenomenon. The civil rights movement was identity politics. The suffrage movement was identity politics. War in the Middle East is largely identity politics. Splitting into factions divided by identity is probably the oldest - and unfortunately, still most effective forms of politics. Straight-up us-and-them, in-group/out-group, good vs. evil politics works. It is coarse. It is gross. It is the oldest trick in the book. Follow your moral compass, take the high road, and appeal to your better angels all you want, but it works.
I don’t think we need to abandon identity politics. I think we’re focused on the wrong identities. The oligarchs surrounding Trump at his inauguration and the little oligarchs like Mike Braun responsible for the state of affairs in Indiana would love for the population to continue to fight over identities like black and white, straight and gay, cis and trans. Well, you know what? Billionaire is an identity. Oligarch is an identity. Just as broke is an identity. Struggling is an identity. Working oneself ragged and never catching up - let alone getting ahead - is an identity. These are the identity politics we should be playing.
So listen, I’m not saying we shouldn’t talk about things like race, sex, and gender. I am saying that’s not sufficient. If we want to get past the shitty, fascist bouncers and into the bumpin’ club that is true global democracy - we’re gonna need a second form of identity politics.
What do you think? Let me know in the comments. Or holler at me on social media - on Facebook, Bluesky, YouTube and TikTok at hoosleft and on most other social media sites at scottrog78. You can also email me at scott@hoosleft.us.
Thanks again to my guest, Veronica Pejril, and thank you for listening. If you can, head over to HoosLeft.US and help support this project with a paid subscription. Again, hit me on the socials with your feedback, tips, ideas, and concerns. Please forward the show to a friend and have them to forward it to another friend. Let’s keep building this project - and truly democratic state. Until next time, this has been the HoosLeft podcast. I’m Scott Aaron Rogers. Love each other, Indiana.
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